Supervisor only sites

Tridium Niagara
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What is everyone’s opinion on sites not using a Jace and just having a local PC with supervisor installed? We’re a new, small controls company trying to keep out proposals low as we grow and have discussed trying to go this route to save on some hardware costs. All of us are new to the N4 world after being with OEM’s for close to a combined 25 years, so maybe we’re mistaken that this is even an option. From my research it appears to be. Correct me if I’m wrong!

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I’m very new to control systems, so I have no advise on this but just wanted to say hello. I would also like to know more about Niagara. I know slightly more about Distech GFX programming, but still just very new.

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Personally, a JACE and supervisor setup is my preference for a couple of reasons:

  • Integrations: A JACE offers built-in MSTP/IP integration for standard protocols right out of the box, included in the license. You can even expand the number of networks by adding modules to the JACE. On the other hand, if you’re using just a Supervisor and need to integrate BACnet MSTP, you’ll have to purchase a BACnet MSTP to IP router—an additional cost. Moreover, Supervisors require licensing for the number of networks you need, which is another added expense.

  • Redundancy: Using a Supervisor solely as the automation and management layer can expose you to the inherent issues of PCs. If the PC goes down, so does your automation. A JACE, however, is field-installed and securely locked away, making it far less susceptible to tampering. Even if the PC fails, your automation layer remains intact.
    Common Issues:

    • Users turning off the PC
    • Windows Updates
    • Viruses
    • And so on

  • Scheduling: Another critical aspect is scheduling. If your schedules are housed in the Supervisor and it gets turned off, you’ll face issues. However, with a JACE, schedules are pushed from the Supervisor to the JACE, so it doesn’t matter if the Supervisor is off. Your scheduled tasks will continue to run seamlessly.

  • Collecting Histories: When it comes to data collection, multiple breakpoints is beneficial. If the Supervisor goes down, you lose logging capabilities. However, with a JACE, data continues to be logged and will be exported to the Supervisor once it’s back online.

There are many many other benefits to having the JACE at the automation level and using the supervisor solely at the management layer, those are just a few.

If you had to pick one or the other for small jobs. I would chose a JACE over a supervisor every day of the week.

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@ControlFreak Hey! I’ve only dabbled in the Distech world a bit - seems decent and people talk highly of it.

@Giantsbane Thanks for the insight! We’ve talked about a majority of these points also, and will most likely stick with using Jace’s/Edge 10’s.

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I’d use the EDGE only for very very small jobs. For Small jobs with non-intensive graphics use the JACE9 and for larger jobs JACE (or multiple) + Supervisor.

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That’s pretty much what we’ve done - the majority of our first jobs were small strip malls/offices where they just had SZVAV RTU’s we integrated over IP with some equipment graphics. Occasional energy monitors and some lighting controls for parking lots, etc. We just landed our first hospital that has an unlimited supervisor license with a handful of Jace’s and a few Edge’s for outbuildings.

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That’s a good score! Hospitals are a bit more interesting than our usual day-to-day.

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It’s gonna be a long project - that’s for sure. Full equipment replacement in phases and replacement of an old Honeywell pneumatic system with new DDC. If I recall right there’s close to 30 AHU’s total and more VAV’s than I could count in a day!

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Sounds like a lot of work! Thank god your removing the Honeywell though, I can’t stand it! You guys replacing with Distech controllers or something?

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JCI FX controllers since we get a good deal on them through a distributor the mechanical side of our business uses.

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I’m kind of fascinated with the JCI Metasys adaptive learning PID structure. I’ve heard that it’s one of the few adaptive applications in BAS that actually works. I would be interested in hearing anyone else’s perspectives on this, or even AI entering the field of controls. Seems like it could really help with efficiency, if it could be made to work?

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And I’ll be fascinated to hear how your hospital project goes. I’m just studying about retrofitting pneumatics with transducers and ddc, and hear it’s just better to replace at this point. would love to hear how it goes, please?

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Id say unless it is a critical environment where explosive gases are for example… Then chuck it in the bin! Even then… there are ways around it. Chuck it in the bin either way :rofl:

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